Addressing Economic Concerns

James Paxton

Former-Chief Clean
Management
Early Supporter
Judiciary
The Governor
EMS
Groundbreaker
Whitelisted
Jan 11, 2021
1,583
2,191
113
Good day,

I wanted to write a short post regarding the state of the economy and address some of the concerns raised in various threads. I think there is important information users should be aware of before concluding a thought regarding the economy.

First and foremost, your thoughts and opinions are heard, and even some changes (Such as three vehicles dropping below starting money and fuel consumption decreases) have been implemented because of them, but I think there's some misconceptions regarding the economy and how it works.

There are numerous jobs within this economy that you will get better at, and thus you will make more money doing. In the beginning, you're going to make relatively low rates of pay - but if you stick to the same career, you will find that it is a lucrative venture. While one thing may seem better than another, it may not actually be in the long term. It's worth keeping in mind that you will likely not be able to buy that car you want on day one - and that's okay. This community is going to go on for months, and you don't need the best thing on the market starting out.

That being said, we are also implementing a $120 an hour Universal Basic Income (UBI) and are looking closely at medical fees among other things - but we want to give the economy time to balance out before rushing to make sweeping changes that may end up over-inflating the economy to the point where it's not worthwhile to have one.

Thanks for reading!

Moody.
 

Rufus Randy

New member
Whitelisted
Mar 7, 2021
23
6
3
Honestly, I think one of the larger things effecting the economy for certain jobs is the weather. When are we possibly looking at sunnier days?
 

James Paxton

Former-Chief Clean
Management
Early Supporter
Judiciary
The Governor
EMS
Groundbreaker
Whitelisted
Jan 11, 2021
1,583
2,191
113
Honestly, I think one of the larger things effecting the economy for certain jobs is the weather. When are we possibly looking at sunnier days?
As soon as we can, this is an issue we're tracking and trying to fix.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rufus Randy

Jessie Foster

New member
Whitelisted
Feb 11, 2021
12
2
3
I like the idea of improving in a job field, but also, I have done a decent bit of hotdog making, and yet, I still only make like 400$ a hour, and I can only make like 20 hot dogs in a hour, because the hotdogs for no reason are ruined 75% of the time, I burn 4 hotdogs and make 1. Maybe if I religiously made hot dogs every single second it could get better but I like talking to people as they pass by. I haven't noticed a difference from when I first started to now making hot dogs, sometimes it feels like I did better before maybe that is just my luck. Is the job genuinely improving? Is there a way to check our experience in a job, maybe categorize the different amounts of income as your rank in the business, starting off as intern or part timer, something we can see to tell "Hey this is getting better"
 

Josh Zimmerman

The betterest Josh
Staff
Developer
Dept of Commerce and Labor
Whitelisted
Feb 9, 2021
1,012
221
63
England
I must say, I have been doing hunting a lot and I have noticed a slight improvement in the chances of a yield. Its going to take a while but I see the light at the end of the tunnel, I honestly like the system a lot, the jobs are skill based irl after all.

My only suggestion would be some way to know how good you are at something even if it's a /stats command or something. Simply having that would make it feel like something is happening when you gain experience in something
 
  • Like
Reactions: Antonio Ariez

Charles Haydes

Member
Whitelisted
Feb 11, 2021
43
37
18
That's good to hear! I think a lot of people have been rolling with the punches but yesterday got scary; Pretty much everyone including me was out collecting garbage which made the world feel a little bit flat. I had to compromise on my character, making an rp excuse for me being there, the only conflicting thing is. It did give me quite an amount of rp and responses that i wouldn't have had otherwise. So I don't believe a hard economy is too bad, we just have to prevent a mass gathering of rushing garbage collectors.

@Jessie Foster I think it's pretty clear the hotdog stand script needs to be reworked or fixed. There are quite a few unexpected behaviours (with work arounds) and the skill checks feel like they dont have any effect, infact I end up getting better hotdogs whenever i fail once or twice in the check, atleast that's how it feels. Regarding getting better at the job, it feels like this resets with every start and stop of the job. The only thing I have noticed is, I now sometimes make two at once. But other than that I didn't notice anything apart from learning the behaviour of the bugs caused by the script and how to avoid and "fix" it.

One thing I would like to suggest for the UBI to maybe lower this when a player reaches a certain threshold(maybe at 10/20k)?
 

Salvatore Scarpaci

Member
Doctor
Whitelisted
Mar 11, 2021
45
38
18
www.twitch.tv
Part of this issue will slowly go away with time, as people make enough money to get those basics they want for their character. Decent car, whatever weapon they might want, so on. It'll pop up again if housing arrives in a more expanded form, I'll guess.

Honestly, as ridiculous as it might seem, a one-time "stimulus package" to every player would get a lot of the server down to roleplaying right away, I think, even if I'm sure it wouldn't even be considered.

Anyway, glad to see the BUI. Still hoping to see some raising of payments for the various gigs, but any step in the right direction is a great step.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Autumn Hudson

Charles Haydes

Member
Whitelisted
Feb 11, 2021
43
37
18
Regarding getting better at the job, it feels like this resets with every start and stop of the job. The only thing I have noticed is, I now sometimes make two at once. But other than that I didn't notice anything apart from learning the behaviour of the bugs caused by the script and how to avoid and "fix" it.

I would like to come back to this, I know it's slightly off topic but I hopped on today and I now am noticing that im getting more hotdogs and with better succes. Maybe something got fixed over night or the skill is working. Anyhow, just wanted to correct myself on this. So yeah it does get better over time. but quite a bit of time. (first 4 tries, with even failing some skill checks, i managed to get good hot dogs)
 

Jessie Foster

New member
Whitelisted
Feb 11, 2021
12
2
3
I would like to come back to this, I know it's slightly off topic but I hopped on today and I now am noticing that im getting more hotdogs and with better succes. Maybe something got fixed over night or the skill is working. Anyhow, just wanted to correct myself on this. So yeah it does get better over time. but quite a bit of time. (first 4 tries, with even failing some skill checks, i managed to get good hot dogs)
Truth be told after the 2 am restart it felt like i suddenly was getting better chances and more hot dogs so yah, seems to maybe be working now? Or atleast is better
 

Levi Murray

Member
Groundbreaker
Whitelisted
Feb 7, 2021
43
21
8
i personally have made tons of cash from doing various jobs. I'm fine with the way it is.
 

Jake Hunt

Member
Whitelisted
Mar 13, 2021
56
8
8
I think part of it is some of us are newer to this kind of server and finding those jobs that are readily available is a bit harder than for some. I think once some of us learn the spots better it will get better
 

Josh Zimmerman

The betterest Josh
Staff
Developer
Dept of Commerce and Labor
Whitelisted
Feb 9, 2021
1,012
221
63
England
I can say, ive spent many many hours on hunting. I seem to get around 13-22 meat per 36 bullets. Each selling at $80, its not bad at all really, just a journey to get there
 

Travis Ray

Active member
Whitelisted
Feb 11, 2021
478
190
43
I’ve noticed this with Go Postal job on day one where I noticed I was getting less pay refusal from deliveries to the point that I’m not getting them. I thought maybe it was a bug that wasn’t reported and got patched either in secret or by accident as another patch bug caused it.

Then I wrote it off as a joke on the meme rep postal players were getting as the cause (yokels were paying us lest we drive the really tank like vans into their homes at 100 mph. God help me I love the go postal memes.).

who knew I was getting good... which ironically is how I head canoned why my reasonably well known actor is delivering packages: He’s actually doing the work because he has an upcoming roll as a supporting character who is a Go Postal worker in the film. He’s getting into character (I have no idea if it’s a comedy flick or an action film. But he’s not the lead character but the leads faithful friend (You’d be surprised what kind of access you can get if you ask someone with Subject Matter Expertise a question that starts with “I’m writing a book where [character with this job does something] and I want to make it look right so...).

I’ve found that “my character wouldn’t do this” is a lack of creativity. If someone was to play “me” as my life as it is today they would say “my character would never flip burgers at McDonalds “ my response would be “Of course not because I was cooking the fried food, I never did a grill job there! And no one would ever flip burgers at McDonalds! They’re double sided grill presses like a George Forman grill because that halves the cook time by a burger flip! And I know this because my first job was at McDonalds, bitch, now cook me my burger, wanna-be-me. And don’t worry about the service with a smile.... I would never work at McDonalds and smile about it. I’d like fries with that!”

Point is you’re character might not do the job as an adult with a career you gave them, but hey, a minimum wage job for extra spending money in high school or college? Just pretend you’re go postal experience was when your character was younger/less viable for your career and your doing that! Just don’t get caught doing it... which judging by other complaints is not going to be a problem for now.

EDIT: That said my character would likely never go hunting because I’m not planning on him getting a gun... if I change my mind, then I can preserve this: He might not hunt but he might get cast as a hunter and thus have to know how to shoot a gun. IC I planned to play him without weapons. Unlike WWRP the setting is much more forgiving of this.
 

Aaron Anderson

New member
Trailblazer
Gold Supporter
Whitelisted
Feb 19, 2021
19
13
3
I like the idea of improving in a job field, but also, I have done a decent bit of hotdog making, and yet, I still only make like 400$ a hour, and I can only make like 20 hot dogs in a hour, because the hotdogs for no reason are ruined 75% of the time, I burn 4 hotdogs and make 1. Maybe if I religiously made hot dogs every single second it could get better but I like talking to people as they pass by. I haven't noticed a difference from when I first started to now making hot dogs, sometimes it feels like I did better before maybe that is just my luck. Is the job genuinely improving? Is there a way to check our experience in a job, maybe categorize the different amounts of income as your rank in the business, starting off as intern or part timer, something we can see to tell "Hey this is getting better"
It takes time, I'm not sure about the hotdog field because I have been more interested in hunting. But when I started hunting I invested about $1200 dollars in license firearm and ammo. For the first day of focusing on the job I barley made my investment back. But now about 2 days of hunting later I make about $800-$1000 dollars on about $75 dollars worth of ammo. Just give it time and be persistent. I think the hotdogs may have a slower rate of "experience" which is needed to make more money because there is almost 0 investment on the part of the player. Sure you have the $50 deposit but you get that back if the cart is returned. I have participated in all of the legal jobs available to us besides the garbage career and think that the staff/dev team have gotten it down pretty well for launch. Sure there is areas that can be improved but only time will tell what they have in store for us.
 

Travis Ray

Active member
Whitelisted
Feb 11, 2021
478
190
43
It takes time, I'm not sure about the hotdog field because I have been more interested in hunting. But when I started hunting I invested about $1200 dollars in license firearm and ammo. For the first day of focusing on the job I barley made my investment back. But now about 2 days of hunting later I make about $800-$1000 dollars on about $75 dollars worth of ammo. Just give it time and be persistent. I think the hotdogs may have a slower rate of "experience" which is needed to make more money because there is almost 0 investment on the part of the player. Sure you have the $50 deposit but you get that back if the cart is returned. I have participated in all of the legal jobs available to us besides the garbage career and think that the staff/dev team have gotten it down pretty well for launch. Sure there is areas that can be improved but only time will tell what they have in store for us.

I tried hotdog sales for a bit but it was so frustrating making them in game and I IRL am really grossed out by hot dogs (it's not the shape of them or the "meat" they use that gets me... they just smell terrible to me) that I realized this is never gonna be a thing for my character because I don't like the thought of picking puke out from between my keyboard keys (exaggerating there).

Plus, it's not a mobile job, which will always get more interest if I get my cash from riding around the map.
 

Aaron Anderson

New member
Trailblazer
Gold Supporter
Whitelisted
Feb 19, 2021
19
13
3
I tried hotdog sales for a bit but it was so frustrating making them in game and I IRL am really grossed out by hot dogs (it's not the shape of them or the "meat" they use that gets me... they just smell terrible to me) that I realized this is never gonna be a thing for my character because I don't like the thought of picking puke out from between my keyboard keys (exaggerating there).

Plus, it's not a mobile job, which will always get more interest if I get my cash from riding around the map.
Not sure how your character feels about killing animals, but i have been having fun riding around on my dirt bike looking for them. Especially when there are not traffic signals to worry about.
 

Travis Ray

Active member
Whitelisted
Feb 11, 2021
478
190
43
Not sure how your character feels about killing animals, but i have been having fun riding around on my dirt bike looking for them. Especially when there are not traffic signals to worry about.

Travis is very much for repeal 2A where as I am more, “Guns are Bot For Me but I won’t let spoil your idea of a good time.” Travis would virtue signal anti-gun stance when possible (and I IC want to get in to a political debate with on IC Twitter which give server down time and person schedule is not how I want to spend what is at best 4 hours of game time on a work day.).

That said my WWRP character loves hunting and is fairly good at wilderness stuff to the point where his very sizable bank account is mostly funded by Elk Pelts. And my next character (a lawyer) is a shout out to my two favorite legal thriller works of fiction: To Kill A Mocking Bird and My Cousin Vinny. Given that both have southern characters who hunt (or in Atticus’ case probably avidly hunted prior to his children’s births) they will probably hunt for sport.
 

Seany Valentine

New member
Whitelisted
Feb 11, 2021
3
2
3
Just wanted to add onto this a little bit since I saw fishing wasn't talked about too much. Understand economic balance is something that is progressively being worked on, I've tried a few different things for making money which has mainly been gopostal, garbage, fishing.

Even after the nerf to the wage of the garbage collection from 430+ to 330+ for example, its way more viable from an economic standpoint to do so than anything else (legally) which makes most people jump on the thing that will get money fast, naturally. I spent around 2-3 hours today from the Tsunami to where there was an early restart fishing and caught only 5 fish, the rest was failed attempts or an abundance of lighters, walking sticks and single casino chips/painkillers which made around 800$, thought i must say i had a good time with all the other people fishing in the spot its still super rough to have such minimal chance of catch and knowing that even if you do catch a fish its pretty worthless unless your catching fishes often from being skilled in the profession. This still makes garbage maybe the "quickest money" in short-term, unsure of the later odds with leveling obviously but i dont think many people think about that stuff especially this early.

suggestion:
a) buff the fish prices a little bit so even if you only catch a few fish an hour, you can still have some fun with the people on the pier doing the same thing.
b) change the odds on losing a fish / catching a fish so it will entice more players to participate in something that isnt just garbage if they want to focus on gaining money for their cars or anything similar.
 

Caterina Moretti

Clumsy
Silver Supporter
Groundbreaker
Whitelisted
Feb 6, 2021
347
102
43
I get so much more RP with fishing than I do any other job. Go Postal and Garbage (if you do them alone) are just driving around the city at 80 miles an hour through red lights to just get that pay. I have had interesting conversations with people I've met at the pier just fishing. The fishing however can get a bit tedious. I know there is a level up system but standing there for an hour and maybe catching 5 fish is just wow. You get skill checks that do nothing after you complete them. Maybe make it so that every skill check you are able to catch something (doesn't always have to be fish) and the more you level up the more likely you are to get a fish with every skill check? I never tested the highest level of fishing in the beta testing and if that is how it is fine, but at least let us lower level fisherman catch garbage with a % chance to get a fish.

I do this in between running the taxi company with Roach which I get RP from both.

We need more roleplay jobs. I'm sure they are in the works and I have a ton of suggestions for some new jobs.
 

Josh Zimmerman

The betterest Josh
Staff
Developer
Dept of Commerce and Labor
Whitelisted
Feb 9, 2021
1,012
221
63
England
Will say, from my understanding. Fishing is really good right now, even at low levels. First time doing it I got 3/4 fish within 45min-1 hour. Compared to hunting for example, Killed 6 deer and got nothing after spending 10s of hours doing Hunting :p

Fish sell for 165 each, meat sells for 80 and seems to have lower change of dropping at the start than fishing, from my experience at least.

Personally, I am kinda in the mind set where I think that both Hunting and Fishing are balanced enough for income (maybe more chance to get stuff in hunting etc but not a big deal). IF anything postal and garbage's issue of people just speeding everywhere is more a failrp type thing than an issue with the job themselves (imo). I haven't done anything with garbage but did do some postal work and the rng of the price x distance makes no sense. Went from Vinewood to Paleto and got $30. Then went to grapeseed from Paleto and got $135.