Addressing Economic Concerns

[Forrest Mann]

I'm down to make catching fish more common, but decrease the price slightly to make it a bit more rewarding just less per fish. I'll add it to the list!

 

[Alexandra Sto]

Just came across this but i can confirm if you stick to the same job you will get better. I sell hotdogs did since day 1 and i can make 3 hotdogs at once and only fail like maybe 3 out of the 10 times i do it. I can easily make like 2k in one run,

 

[Travis Ray]

Just came across this but i can confirm if you stick to the same job you will get better. I sell hotdogs did since day 1 and i can make 3 hotdogs at once and only fail like maybe 3 out of the 10 times i do it. I can easily make like 2k in one run,

I'm back in the GO Postal Truck because I'm making more than double what I did when I started out.

 

[Tang Lee]

Good day,

I wanted to write a short post regarding the state of the economy and address some of the concerns raised in various threads. I think there is important information users should be aware of before concluding a thought regarding the economy.

First and foremost, your thoughts and opinions are heard, and even some changes (Such as three vehicles dropping below starting money and fuel consumption decreases) have been implemented because of them, but I think there's some misconceptions regarding the economy and how it works.

There are numerous jobs within this economy that you will get better at, and thus you will make more money doing. In the beginning, you're going to make relatively low rates of pay - but if you stick to the same career, you will find that it is a lucrative venture. While one thing may seem better than another, it may not actually be in the long term. It's worth keeping in mind that you will likely not be able to buy that car you want on day one - and that's okay. This community is going to go on for months, and you don't need the best thing on the market starting out.

That being said, we are also implementing a $120 an hour Universal Basic Income (UBI) and are looking closely at medical fees among other things - but we want to give the economy time to balance out before rushing to make sweeping changes that may end up over-inflating the economy to the point where it's not worthwhile to have one.

Thanks for reading!

Moody.

Man, I think where the economy is right now is pretty good. Yes, it takes a while to make money but it's realistic. No everyone walks around with 10k+ in their bank account. The grind is real!

 

[Toni Bernasconi]

I'm fairly new, but personally I've played on a few different servers and the ones I enjoy the most are not economy focused. I realize it's inherent to the experience but I'd enjoy seeing more jobs where RP can be the focus and you just so happen to make money while doing it. Small adjustments such as jobs requiring selling to other players and not locals or NPC's in some cases may help with this!

 

[Tessa Sauvagess]

I think the reward vs time wasted on civ jobs is horrible and needs to be better balanced. Grinding is not RP (caveat being unless you do it with someone else or it's part of your character's story), and if you don't want people to grind gopostal or garbage, make the other jobs more rewarding. Fishing and hot dog selling especially...6 IRL hours of pure hot dog making should not result in me ruining the hot dog 9/10 times. That's so unfair, and it feels like a slap in the face. It might sound dramatic but after I realized I had spent 6 hours trying to sell a hot dog and had only made about 400 dollars, I actually wanted to cry. I wanted that to be my character's thing, selling hot dogs to both locals and people, but in the end I had to give up because it was just NOT worth it on the local end. (Civ end? Totally worth it, I LOOOVE the interaction I've gotten from doing it!)

I really need the admins need to understand that the easier it is to obtain money, the less grinding will happen. I never grinded in another server where you could easily make New Day's equivalent of 2-2.5k in an hour (or usually more like 5k tbh, which might be a lil excessive for here). Which currently, you can only make if you zoom through garbage or have put 20-30+ IRL hours into fishing, which is a complete and utter waste of your time on Earth if you ask me. The skill and leveling system needs to be rebalanced for fishing, hunting, and hot dog making, and desperately so. Does it have to be 2k an hour right off the bat? Maybe not, but nobody should have to wait 20+ hours to see any significant return on their time lost standing at the beach alone, wishing they were RPing with other people instead.

My suggestion for fishing would be, maybe every 10-20 successful minigame completions, you get a much higher chance at catching a fish, and that getting to the point where you're consistently catching fish (like 50-50 chance or 60-40) shouldn't take any more than 5 hours max, assuming you successfully complete the minigame 70-80% of the time. And hot dog selling should honestly only take like 30 minutes to an hour before you're proficient at it. The prices of hot dogs can stay the same honestly, but please make your chances of successfully cooking a hot dog WAY higher. Will it mean a bunch of people are gonna be riding around in slightly better cars? Yeah maybe, but given the community, I don't think having it easier to make money is going to ruin the RP. It just means you'll see less people at the pier.

TL;DR realism =/= grinding, civ jobs + reward - time spent = less grind/more RP

Edit: Not trying to sound rude or bitchy btw, I will admit I am extremely frustrated with the economy but this isn't me trying to take a jab at the devs or the admins or Mac himself, rather getting my point out there that it is unnecessarily, unreasonably hard and feels like a waste of time 99% of the time, to me and to others. Which really sucks because there's a lot I like about the RP community here. If garbage got a slight, slight boost (maybe 100-200 dollars) it'd be about perfect in terms of time spent vs reward IMO, for reference. Fishing apparently is pretty good at the highest skill levels, but after 20+ hours I wouldn't know. I don't catch more than 1 fish every 30 minutes and I'm pretty good at the minigame, if I'm actually trying to play it.

 

[Forrest Mann]

Alright, I'm gonna say it: Personally, I think it's the worst economy I've ever seen. Grinding is not RP (caveat being unless you do it with someone else or it's part of your character's story), and if you don't want people to grind gopostal or garbage, make the other jobs more rewarding. I think the reward vs time wasted on civ jobs is horrible and needs to be better balanced. Fishing and hot dog selling especially, my god...6 IRL hours of pure hot dog making should not result in me ruining the hot dog 9/10 times. That's so unfair, and it feels like a slap in the face. It might sound dramatic but after I realized I had spent 6 hours trying to sell a hot dog and had only made about 400 dollars, I actually wanted to cry. I wanted that to be my character's thing, selling hot dogs to both locals and people, but in the end I had to give up because it was just NOT worth it on the local end. (Civ end? Totally worth it, I LOOOVE the interaction I've gotten from doing it!)

The admins need to understand that the easier it is to obtain money, the less grinding will happen. I never grinded in another server where you could easily make New Day's equivalent of 2-2.5k in an hour (or usually more like 5k tbh). Which currently, you can only make if you zoom through garbage or have put 20-30+ IRL hours into fishing, which is a complete and utter waste of your time on Earth if you ask me. The skill and leveling system needs to be rebalanced for fishing, hunting, and hot dog making, and desperately so. Does it have to be 2k an hour right off the bat? Maybe not, but nobody should have to wait 20+ hours to see any significant return on their time lost standing at the beach alone, wishing they were RPing with other people instead.

My suggestion for fishing would be, maybe every 10-20 successful minigame completions, you get a much higher chance at catching a fish, and that getting to the point where you're consistently catching fish (like 50-50 chance or 60-40) shouldn't take any more than 5 hours max, assuming you successfully complete the minigame 70-80% of the time. And hot dog selling should honestly only take like 30 minutes to an hour before you're proficient at it. The prices of hot dogs can stay the same honestly, but please make your chances of successfully cooking a hot dog WAY higher. Will it mean a bunch of people are gonna be riding around in slightly better cars? Yeah maybe, but given the community, I don't think having it easier to make money is going to ruin the RP. It just means you'll see less people at the pier.

TL;DR realism =/= grinding, civ jobs + reward - time spent = less grind/more RP

There are a lot of people that have a lot of assets in the server, so I think I'll disagree with you here. Perhaps your experience has been that you can't make money off of hotdogs (Which is a more RP-oriented job, maybe it could be bumped a bit), but if you make some money and play it into some of the markets (Crypto, etc) you can make money. Various people are already driving around in 200-300k vehicles, and many have a very decent amount of savings and investments. You start with enough money to buy a basic starter vehicle and some supplies; and can easily make enough money to RP.

Getting that vehicle you really want is something that happens in the mid to long term, not something that'll happen overnight. At higher levels, all jobs pay decently and isn't impossible to obtain vehicles at all. I think having something to work towards in-between your RP is good for character progression and to ensure people don't magically all have high-end vehicles immediately.

 

[Tang Lee]

There are a lot of people that have a lot of assets in the server, so I think I'll disagree with you here. Perhaps your experience has been that you can't make money off of hotdogs (Which is a more RP-oriented job, maybe it could be bumped a bit), but if you make some money and play it into some of the markets (Crypto, etc) you can make money. Various people are already driving around in 200-300k vehicles, and many have a very decent amount of savings and investments. You start with enough money to buy a basic starter vehicle and some supplies; and can easily make enough money to RP.

Getting that vehicle you really want is something that happens in the mid to long term, not something that'll happen overnight. At higher levels, all jobs pay decently and isn't impossible to obtain vehicles at all. I think having something to work towards in-between your RP is good for character progression and to ensure people don't magically all have high-end vehicles immediately.

I agree but when the palm goes up the economy will be devastated people are going to be selling things for so much. People have upwards off 300 coins realistically the palm should have gone up weeks ago with the amount that people were buying.

Grinding is not RP

But it's different. I can agree if someone fishes for 16 hours and makes 50k+ that's just dumb. The more you sell the less you should make or you should be limited on how much you can catch. But here's the thing, I made 8k for doing trash routes for 2 hours. I do this every time right when I get on. Of course, it's going to be a grind to get the money it's how the world works. You can definitely have enough money to Rp with the jobs that are currently offered to you. Josh I pretty much never have money because I give it away all the time and I still have a great time.

But of course, there can be some things that can be tweaked to make it a little better but you have to remember the server is fresh. Give the staff and devs some time to get stuff done.

 

[Tessa Sauvagess]

There are a lot of people that have a lot of assets in the server, so I think I'll disagree with you here. Perhaps your experience has been that you can't make money off of hotdogs (Which is a more RP-oriented job, maybe it could be bumped a bit), but if you make some money and play it into some of the markets (Crypto, etc) you can make money. Various people are already driving around in 200-300k vehicles, and many have a very decent amount of savings and investments. You start with enough money to buy a basic starter vehicle and some supplies; and can easily make enough money to RP.

Getting that vehicle you really want is something that happens in the mid to long term, not something that'll happen overnight. At higher levels, all jobs pay decently and isn't impossible to obtain vehicles at all. I think having something to work towards in-between your RP is good for character progression and to ensure people don't magically all have high-end vehicles immediately.

There are other ways of making decent money, but my point was nobody should be having to waste so much IRL time in a civ job. Those hours should be spent RPing; networking, making friends, making enemies, annoying the cops, kissing the cops' asses, getting mad at pool, having nightmares about the 8 ball, drinking, smoking, etc. Just because some people are driving in high end cars and managed to score 200-300k doesn't mean that it still isn't extremely grindy. In fact, I've heard people outright boast about how they afforded those cars, and it was very quickly overnight, and it was not through RP. It's always "I grinded garbage" "I grinded postal". It's never, "I scored a sick business deal" or "so and so paid me 10k to beat them with a pool cue". There's only one person I asked who made their money through RP, and it's a stripper.

My experience as someone who gave up on the grind fairly early on and focuses solely on RP, is literally the only money I make is through robbing houses and a certain type of male specimen who like to throw money at cute girls because they go "uwu". Oh, and UBI. Which funds almost all of my 16k. Am I fine with this 16k? I actually am, but it doesn't change the fact that I'd need to set aside maybe 6 hours for pure grinding if I wanted to double that in a legal manner that wouldn't involve brow-beating Ziggy Star into giving me 1k again for my """services""".

I also don't understand why getting a vehicle you really want has to be the end all do all in these arguments? There's so much more that people want but that would take literally hundreds of hours doing nothing but civ job grinding to get. That's hundreds of hours they could be getting that money through other ways, which they should, but not everyone has those opportunities. In fact, getting what you want IC has absolutely no real weight in this argument. It's not about what your character wants or even what you want for your character, it's about the time spent in the server and how it's spent, and it disheartens me greatly knowing that I'd have to spend hours and hours of precious time doing something completely mind-numbing like go postal if I wanted a guarantee bank account increase. Why is why I don't do it. Because I'm not here for mind numbing games, I'm here for RP. So I have to stay doing house robberies if I want any income, because that's at least fun and I don't feel like I'm wasting my time even if I only get a few lockpicks and one watch.

But here's the thing, I made 8k for doing trash routes for 2 hours. I do this every time right when I get on. Of course, it's going to be a grind to get the money it's how the world works.

But...You just proved my point. You grind for 2 hours when you could be actually RPing. "That's how the world works" is not an argument at all. A realism server doesn't mean we need to replicate the horrible practices of capitalism IRL. I'd never stay on a server that made me feel like I did working barely above minimum wage and being able to afford fuck all, because that's what we call a waste of my damn time.......Can you tell I worked in fast food?

 

[Alexandra Sto]

There are other ways of making decent money, but my point was nobody should be having to waste so much IRL time in a civ job. Those hours should be spent RPing; networking, making friends, making enemies, annoying the cops, kissing the cops' asses, getting mad at pool, having nightmares about the 8 ball, drinking, smoking, etc. Just because some people are driving in high end cars and managed to score 200-300k doesn't mean that it still isn't extremely grindy. In fact, I've heard people outright boast about how they afforded those cars, and it was very quickly overnight, and it was not through RP. It's always "I grinded garbage" "I grinded postal". It's never, "I scored a sick business deal" or "so and so paid me 10k to beat them with a pool cue". There's only one person I asked who made their money through RP, and it's a stripper.

My experience as someone who gave up on the grind fairly early on and focuses solely on RP, is literally the only money I make is through robbing houses and a certain type of male specimen who like to throw money at cute girls because they go "uwu". Oh, and UBI. Which funds almost all of my 16k. Am I fine with this 16k? I actually am, but it doesn't change the fact that I'd need to set aside maybe 6 hours for pure grinding if I wanted to double that in a legal manner that wouldn't involve brow-beating Ziggy Star into giving me 1k again for my """services""".

I also don't understand why getting a vehicle you really want has to be the end all do all in these arguments? There's so much more that people want but that would take literally hundreds of hours doing nothing but civ job grinding to get. That's hundreds of hours they could be getting that money through other ways, which they should, but not everyone has those opportunities. In fact, getting what you want IC has absolutely no real weight in this argument. It's not about what your character wants or even what you want for your character, it's about the time spent in the server and how it's spent, and it disheartens me greatly knowing that I'd have to spend hours and hours of precious time doing something completely mind-numbing like go postal if I wanted a guarantee bank account increase. Why is why I don't do it. Because I'm not here for mind numbing games, I'm here for RP. So I have to stay doing house robberies if I want any income, because that's at least fun and I don't feel like I'm wasting my time even if I only get a few lockpicks and one watch.



But...You just proved my point. You grind for 2 hours when you could be actually RPing. "That's how the world works" is not an argument at all. A realism server doesn't mean we need to replicate the horrible practices of capitalism IRL. I'd never stay on a server that made me feel like I did working barely above minimum wage and being able to afford fuck all, because that's what we call a waste of my damn time.......Can you tell I worked in fast food?

I sell hotdogs and i get all kinds of RP. You can Do these "Grinding jobs" That you call it and still rp properly. It is what you make of it. Shoot i use this time to promote my BMX group too. So in the end, yes they can be grindy i guess, but you make your own rp.

 

[Tang Lee]

There are other ways of making decent money, but my point was nobody should be having to waste so much IRL time in a civ job. Those hours should be spent RPing; networking, making friends, making enemies, annoying the cops, kissing the cops' asses, getting mad at pool, having nightmares about the 8 ball, drinking, smoking, etc. Just because some people are driving in high end cars and managed to score 200-300k doesn't mean that it still isn't extremely grindy. In fact, I've heard people outright boast about how they afforded those cars, and it was very quickly overnight, and it was not through RP. It's always "I grinded garbage" "I grinded postal". It's never, "I scored a sick business deal" or "so and so paid me 10k to beat them with a pool cue". There's only one person I asked who made their money through RP, and it's a stripper.

My experience as someone who gave up on the grind fairly early on and focuses solely on RP, is literally the only money I make is through robbing houses and a certain type of male specimen who like to throw money at cute girls because they go "uwu". Oh, and UBI. Which funds almost all of my 16k. Am I fine with this 16k? I actually am, but it doesn't change the fact that I'd need to set aside maybe 6 hours for pure grinding if I wanted to double that in a legal manner that wouldn't involve brow-beating Ziggy Star into giving me 1k again for my """services""".

I also don't understand why getting a vehicle you really want has to be the end all do all in these arguments? There's so much more that people want but that would take literally hundreds of hours doing nothing but civ job grinding to get. That's hundreds of hours they could be getting that money through other ways, which they should, but not everyone has those opportunities. In fact, getting what you want IC has absolutely no real weight in this argument. It's not about what your character wants or even what you want for your character, it's about the time spent in the server and how it's spent, and it disheartens me greatly knowing that I'd have to spend hours and hours of precious time doing something completely mind-numbing like go postal if I wanted a guarantee bank account increase. Why is why I don't do it. Because I'm not here for mind numbing games, I'm here for RP. So I have to stay doing house robberies if I want any income, because that's at least fun and I don't feel like I'm wasting my time even if I only get a few lockpicks and one watch.



But...You just proved my point. You grind for 2 hours when you could be actually RPing. "That's how the world works" is not an argument at all. A realism server doesn't mean we need to replicate the horrible practices of capitalism IRL. I'd never stay on a server that made me feel like I did working barely above minimum wage and being able to afford fuck all, because that's what we call a waste of my damn time.......Can you tell I worked in fast food?

Collecting trash is rp tho. If you don’t wanna “waste time” then don’t.

 

[Tessa Sauvagess]

I sell hotdogs and i get all kinds of RP. You can Do these "Grinding jobs" That you call it and still rp properly. It is what you make of it. Shoot i use this time to promote my BMX group too. So in the end, yes they can be grindy i guess, but you make your own rp.

I get tons of RP from selling to other players but not to locals, and yes you can make your own RP. But none of this still changes that it's unbalanced.

 

[Kyra Stark]

Fishing seems a bit broken for some people. Out of the last 4 hours (non consecutive) I have recieved a total of 1 lighter, 1 poker chip, 1 rolling paper, about 4 fish, and maybe 3 skill ups. I have once sat for 1 full hour having caught 1 fish and gotten no skill ups and a massive amount of "you failed to catch this fish, keep trying."

 

[Frankie Hunter-Tott]

disclaimer: Only my view / opinion.

Walks into then conversation as a law abiding government employee and accepts that I make less than other jobs grinding it per hour.

it didn’t take some EMS to realise that once you’re good at it, fishing and hunting pays more. That’s definitely not the case for EMS or PD as rank doesn’t equal pay scale. At the end of the day we’re here for a hobby (some streamers maybe using it to help income but that further validates the point below) and I agree that we’re not here to grind like the early levels of WoW (get me the heart of 100,000 male wolves in the den where you just slain 50,000 female wolves) even though money does enable stories and character desires to come to fruition.

(My point: ) We’re here for RP. And RP is what you make it. It makes us entertained and feel emotions for the characters were developing or meeting.
Hell, I often have to RP with myself if someone is in the back of the ambo and unable to talk. I can’t read a /me driving a million mph down great ocean.

all that said #PayRiseForGovernmentStaffOrUnionisation

 

[Dwight Kirby]

all that said #PayRiseForGovernmentStaffOrUnionisation

I see that government workers did get a minor pay raise today, about $60 more per hour.

I'd honestly love to see a day where we make wages where we could realistically buy cars or houses without having to put in 12 hour days five times per week. It doesn't make sense for my character to do GoPostal or Garbage, but I know easily I can make more money doing that than my whitelisted government job.

 

[Forrest Mann]

I see that government workers did get a minor pay raise today, about $60 more per hour.

Everybody got a $10 raise across the board. Over time, WL roles will always make more because they're passive

 

[Dwight Kirby]

Everybody got a $10 raise across the board. Over time, WL roles will always make more because they're passive

Soo, I should main GoPostal? Two hours of my wage as EMS is less than two hours of GoPostal once you've worked at it enough which just seems silly to me.

Not trying to start an argument of course, but an hour of govt pay is about $750 and an hour of skilled-up GoPostal can net over $1000. One job can be stressful/demanding/demoralizing and the other is driving around a delivery truck where you may wind up not even interacting with someone. Just tonight we gave a ride to someone who wrecked their truck so they could finish their last delivery, they cashed in $200 for that single package on a route with 9-12 packages, netting them more that single run than my entire hour of work - easily.

My EMS character, as an example, will struggle to ever own a house as part of his story because he's never going to be able to swing $180,000 which seems to be the average price for a property that fits his story. For him to ever achieve this and be able to compete with others that live other lifestyles, he'd have to turn to other means to make money that then take away from an active person on the EMS roster, if that makes sense.

 

[Forrest Mann]

Soo, I should main GoPostal? Two hours of my wage as EMS is less than two hours of GoPostal once you've worked at it enough which just seems silly to me.

Again, one job is passive vs active. You get paid no matter if you're moving or interacting with people or what. Like I said, PD and EMS typically end up the richest in the long term in RP communities. I've personally made $100,000 from my job, and I don't grind the hell out of it.

 

[Billy Banter]

I don't for a whitelisted job right now, but I would say that $750 an Hr is loads for doing something you actually enjoy.

Does that get paid only if you are clocked on? i.e if you r out and about doing civ stuff not clocked in that money does not get paid too you?

You have to remember that driving a Go Postal Van is BORING AS HELL, frustrating when you get sent back and forth too Paleto 3 times in a row, and if your one of the drivers that actually sticks to the road laws, stops at every red light, does not break the speed limit etc etc, you are pushed to make $1000 an hr.

I mean the fact you as a medical worker is underpaid, is the most realistic thing in the game IMHO
I'm quite honestly surprised they are not forcing you to do 18 hr shifts!!!

 

[Forrest Mann]

Does that get paid only if you are clocked on? i.e if you r out and about doing civ stuff not clocked in that money does not get paid too you?

Correct, only when clocked in. When off duty we recieve UBI ($40/10 mins)