Let's Talk Medical

Mac Shanahan

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In terms of medical RP, I have seen some spectacular RP from both sides most of the time. In my opinion, if you go to the ER the onus is on you, the patient, to set the tone for the depth of RP. I know the medical staff don't want to unintentionally force an injury/illness on the patients so having some idea of injuries/symptoms/causes provides a great canvass for you as the patient.

A long time ago in a previous community I had a "cheat sheet" of sorts. I have some trauma med training from my job, but still wanted to make sure I had a quick reference of things so I could provide good RP. I've since lost the cheat sheet, but started to recreate one here. Take a look if you want, this is incredibly handy especially if your character(s) partake in rather risky business. I'll continue to add things to it, and I believe folks can make comments if they wish.
 
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Vick Torino

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In terms of medical RP, I have seen some spectacular RP from both sides most of the time. In my opinion, if you go to the ER the onus is on you, the patient, to set the tone for the depth of RP. I know the medical staff don't want to unintentionally force an injury/illness on the patients so having some idea of injuries/symptoms/causes provides a great canvass for you as the patient.

A long time ago in a previous community I had a "cheat sheet" of sorts. I have some trauma med training from my job, but still wanted to make sure I had a quick reference of things so I could provide good RP. I've since lost the cheat sheet, but started to recreate one here. Take a look if you want, this is incredibly handy especially if your character(s) partake in rather risky business. I'll continue to add things to it, and I believe folks can make comments if they wish.
We made a pretty handy unofficial guide to basic injuries down at the bottom until staff makes one. It fell down in general behind other posts. That can be found here on the forums. You have made a nice symptom list!

As for people saying doctors stand around and ignore injured patients. Report the doctors to command, easy fix.
 
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Kimber Newman

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Let's Talk Medical! :)

I -love- EMS/Medical RP. I feel EMS is a HUGE contributor towards a server having the actual GTA RP feel vs the GTA Online feel. I have been EMS on another server. I have experienced all the paperwork that goes with the role. I have experienced the stress of concern I have for my character saving a life and then as a player, worried that I didn't get the patient's name or some small technical thing that could effect RP in the future. I have been held at gunpoint while on scene treating a patient only to have them flatline on me and die because of another criminal's actions. And I have to say.... I wouldn't change a single thing about those encounters or experiences. They helped me as a player shape and form my character's life. Why she became the taser carrying EMS.

That aside, what I have seen on NDRP with the EMS/PB Staff is good for the most part. You all seem to have structure and a goal. You all seem passionate about your roles. This is amazing and I encourage you to please keep at it.

On numerus occasions already I have seen a medic get verbally rude over the parking in front of Pillbox. There was -no- polite requests made from EMS to begin the interaction with said vehicle owner. No -observation- was made to see if the person was actually parking there or dropping someone off for medical treatment. It was rude and gruff and just nasty attitude over "Parking issues" at Pillbox. EMS/PB Staff are not immune to consequences for their IC actions or behavior towards others. If your character is going to be rude over a misunderstanding or something simple like parking issues, be prepared for a reaction to this behavior.

Yes, EMS has parking in front of Pillbox. Yes, they are to keep the area clear of people actually parking there. However, you allow police to park there because they have business at Pillbox. How is it any different to the EMS staff when someone drops off a person at the door who also has business at Pillbox? It is very much a "GET OFF MY LAWN" mental and the last time I checked, there is no rule on this server saying that the community can not drop off a player at the Pillbox door. Nor should there ever be for various reasons listed in previous posts. Plus, there is also a sense of realism for some of the Pillbox drop offs.

My concern with the Medical staff is that they are beginning to take matters IC into a OOC space. It takes a lot of OOC time and effort to do your jobs. I understand this first hand. However, remember that it is the stress of your -character- to do their paperwork correctly, to treat the patient properly, to deal with unpredictable scenes that arise every time your character wakes up in Los Santos. It is -not- the player's stress. Nor should the player's stress cloud or effect the character's responses to such stresses they are given. Your character is a human and will make mistakes. Allow your character's to own these mistakes and roll with the RP. If you find yourself taking IC matters into a OOC space, perhaps it is time for a break.

I see a lot of good things from the EMS/Pillbox Staff. I also see a lot of room for improvement. Which, in my opinion, is a good thing. As a player, I respect you and appreciate what you all have been giving to this community. Hell, I was even wondering if Kimber's life would lead her into the EMS/Medical life at some point because what I was seeing from the EMS/Pillbox Staff was very encouraging. Continue to keep your OOC feelings in check when you are confronted ICly with folks you feel might be trolling you. Not everyone in this community is out to get you and ruin you attempts to provide good Medical RP. This is a game and you should play to have fun.
 

Chevrolet Mason

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Adding onto that, people need to start calling 911 when they are injuried - especially when they've been shot or suffered other major injuries. EMS has worked A LOT to get more EMS available around the clock, but are still confronted with people dragging their friends in to the hospital. Repeat offenders here will be talked to. If you call 911 and don't get a response within a few minutes, then go ahead and transport - but call 911 and they'll respond that your call has been recieved and they've sent a unit.

So I don't disagree with this. I've had a lot of friends play EMS and I understand why it's annoying.

That said, the fact that people could get OOC warnings over this concerns me. I don't know how many times I have called 911 (via both phone and the /911 command), had no one respond, waited a good 10-15 minutes, then took someone (or had someone take me) to the hospital and STILL got scolded for it at the door of Pillbox. How long are we supposed to wait?
 

Nikki OLeary

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Move the check-in behind a locked door which is inaccessible to the public, BUT ONLY WHEN there are 3+ EMS staff logged into work. There will still be walk-ins, but the number of walk-ins will decrease over time once they bring a friend into Pillbox once or twice and find no direct check-in option.

The Pillbox staff will have to have a local check-in process for when people do this, there is no way around that.


The Pillbox staff should never be able to turn away people from treatment, ever. This needs to be a server rule.
 
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Dwight Kirby

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That said, the fact that people could get OOC warnings over this concerns me.
Nobody is really getting "warnings" for not calling 911/carrying people in, what they're getting is a 1:1 discussion and reminded of the value of EMS and the RP here. Sure, I'm certain it could lead to warnings if the same person has tickets opened repeatedly for the same issue, but for the most part its just a simple conversation where misunderstandings can be cleared up.

don't know how many times I have called 911 (via both phone and the /911 command), had no one respond, waited a good 10-15 minutes,
Right now there isn't a 911 number via the phone, if you call that it doesn't go anywhere. Only /911 is a thing ATM. If nobody is responding, that's definitely on us and something we're actively working on getting better to respond to. We do have a lot of newer folks on the force, so that's 100% a training issue.

then took someone (or had someone take me) to the hospital and STILL got scolded for it at the door of Pillbox.
If you've done your due diligence and we still failed, by all means get someone to the hospital. As I noted above, that's on us for sure and if you're getting scolded for it, check us on "Yeah, well I used 911 ten minutes ago and nobody bothered to respond". We have a lot of players that don't bother dialing 911 that carry people in that honestly ruin things for those that have actively made an attempt to get assistance.

--

What our chief complaint is, is not people walking in to the hospital or getting dropped off outside/walking across the street. If you can get to the hospital under your own power, by all means do so! We don't need called if you stub your toe or something minor, and we're not here to make a big stink over that. What we see all too much of is people throwing someone that can't walk or is down-down into their car and driving them to the hospital without notifying us, that's where we get most of our RP from (the serious stuff, anyway) and those people should be treated as "shit, they could die".

We've seen people come in that have been hit by cars or fallen off buildings, those people should require professional medical attention in RP terms. We've also seen people that come in bloody with the story "lol yea it was crazy, i was on my bike and got hit by a truck and slid down the freeway, i got a cut on my arm can you patch that up?" where it isn't realistic at all.

We don't want to use the mechanics we have available to check your injuries to dictate what your injuries are, we use that as a last resort when someone won't RP back with us (which should be improved once people can talk again while down-down), we use that to base what we say/do. Try to have fun with your injuries and we'll have fun with them back, it doesn't have to be super realistic all the time. If you slip and fall off a curb and the game decides you can't walk, make up some story about how "yeah well I was walking around on my phone and didn't see it, I think I twisted my ankle" or something fun. We (both EMS and Doctor) will feed off whatever you give us.

--

We're here to have fun just like everyone else, unfortunately the bad eggs are soiling things for the good ones. Some things w/ regards to 911, if you can give us a brief description of what's wrong like "/911 Hey, friend slipped off this ledge and he doesn't look very good, he's bleeding from his leg" we can even respond back asking details, like, "We'll have a unit enroute shortly, but we're a little backed up. Can you tell us if anything is broken and are they talking?" and could go as far as telling you "If you can get them safely to the hospital, go ahead and do so".

Not everything needs to be through 1:1 RP and dispatchers IRL use judgement calls every day to decide if a medic needs rolled to a scene.
 

Chevrolet Mason

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Ok that makes me feel better. Thank you Ernest.

Also, my additional two cents: I know hospitals can be stressful IRL and there's a certain amount of stress EMS players are expected to experience, but in my last server it got so bad that most of the EMS force quit and we had no one to do medical RP with anymore.

Do I think that's gonna happen here? Not necessarily, but please please please for the love of god be nice to your EMS people. If people are constantly hostile it can wear on people OOC to the point that they might start quitting, and I honestly wouldn't blame them. While RP can be stressful at times, we are all here to have fun, and constantly being exposed to hostile situations in or near a hospital is probably draining as hell.
 

Walker Webb

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I highly disagree with this. Doing dumb shit because your character (or you yourself) may not know better does not classify as NVL any more than enacting revenge on an armed group of people for shooting your friend. Most people are not RPing characters who have taken first aid classes and only some are smart enough to know not to move them. It also depends on the injuries they're RPing out...Also, people don't think the best when they're panicking and carrying an injured person to a hospital. I know that you absolutely should NEVER give CPR to someone with a pulse, because I understand how CPR works and how it doesn't, but my character Violet doesn't quite know that, so she might try it on someone someday. If they're looking to perma, it'd probably kill them. But is that NVL? Nope.

In real life if you carry your dying friend to the hospital and don't use emergency resources, you could be liable for their death if they die depending on the circumstances. Thats one of several reasons we recommend so loudly in character to use 911, so that the excuse of ignorance isn't one people can use in this case.
 

Kimber Newman

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In real life if you carry your dying friend to the hospital and don't use emergency resources, you could be liable for their death if they die depending on the circumstances.

"The Good Samaritan Act is a law which protects any volunteer giving aid to an injured person in an emergency situation. The Good Samaritan Law offers legal protection in the form of exemption from lawsuits and liability, acting as a safeguard to those who help another in a real emergency, life-or-death situation."

So, no, you can not be held liable for giving aid to an injured person in an emergency situation.
 

Dwight Kirby

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Ok that makes me feel better. Thank you Ernest.

Also, my additional two cents: I know hospitals can be stressful IRL and there's a certain amount of stress EMS players are expected to experience, but in my last server it got so bad that most of the EMS force quit and we had no one to do medical RP with anymore.

Do I think that's gonna happen here? Not necessarily, but please please please for the love of god be nice to your EMS people. If people are constantly hostile it can wear on people OOC to the point that they might start quitting, and I honestly wouldn't blame them. While RP can be stressful at times, we are all here to have fun, and constantly being exposed to hostile situations in or near a hospital is probably draining as hell.

I think that last part is a big thing, we totally understand that not every character is going to be a bubbling source of happiness and that hospitals can be and regularly are emotional places.

What we're more getting at is "don't be a dick for the sake of being a dick", it gets old and wears us down and inevitably we do start responding the way we do because we're just kind of over it at that point. Ties back in to what I said above, the bad ruin things for the good/well intentioned.
 

Dwight Kirby

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"The Good Samaritan Act is a law which protects any volunteer giving aid to an injured person in an emergency situation. The Good Samaritan Law offers legal protection in the form of exemption from lawsuits and liability, acting as a safeguard to those who help another in a real emergency, life-or-death situation."

So, no, you can not be held liable for giving aid to an injured person in an emergency situation.

Not entirely - "While some states offer immunity to Good Samaritans, not all do, and claims of negligence of care can be made. The Good Samaritan law does not apply if the person giving aid is reckless or careless: this is considered “gross negligence” and the negligent party may be liable to the victim for worsening their injuries."

Pulling someone from a burning vehicle and tending to their wounds while EMS responds? Good Samaritan

Hiking with someone who slips and tumbles, breaking their leg and you fashion a basic splint or tourniquet their leg? Good Samaritan

Throwing someone over your shoulder after they get bitchslapped by a Faggio doing 60mph and they can't walk? Not a Good Samaritan
 

Kimber Newman

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Not entirely - "While some states offer immunity to Good Samaritans, not all do, and claims of negligence of care can be made. The Good Samaritan law does not apply if the person giving aid is reckless or careless: this is considered “gross negligence” and the negligent party may be liable to the victim for worsening their injuries."

Pulling someone from a burning vehicle and tending to their wounds while EMS responds? Good Samaritan

Hiking with someone who slips and tumbles, breaking their leg and you fashion a basic splint or tourniquet their leg? Good Samaritan

Throwing someone over your shoulder after they get bitchslapped by a Faggio doing 60mph and they can't walk? Not a Good Samaritan


I would say let the courts decide if option 3 is good Samaritan or not. Again the INTENT is what is being looked at. But to say that you are going to be held liable for helping someone in an emergency situation is silly.

If that were the case, NO ONE would touch ANYONE that was injured and in fact would cause more harm than good. Which is why the good Samaritan act even exists.
 

Giles Clarke

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But to say that you are going to be held liable for helping someone in an emergency situation is silly.

Absolutely not - being held liable for doing something you're not qualified to do and in turn causing worse problems than if you'd never intervened in the first place is perfectly sane because it forces people who don't know what the hell they're doing to wait for specialists to come do things properly. This comes down to what "Good Samaritan" covers. In the Faggio situation, being a Good Samaritan ends at moving the person out of the way of further traffic collisions - only off-duty medical staff have the minimum amount of training to be covered by Good Samaritan laws beyond that and in fact, anyone with any level of first aid (even if they don't have actual medical training) would yell at you for doing anything more than moving them.
 

Kimber Newman

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Absolutely not - being held liable for doing something you're not qualified to do and in turn causing worse problems than if you'd never intervened in the first place is perfectly sane because it forces people who don't know what the hell they're doing to wait for specialists to come do things properly. This comes down to what "Good Samaritan" covers. In the Faggio situation, being a Good Samaritan ends at moving the person out of the way of further traffic collisions - only off-duty medical staff have the minimum amount of training to be covered by Good Samaritan laws beyond that and in fact, anyone with any level of first aid (even if they don't have actual medical training) would yell at you for doing anything more than moving them.

By your logic, you are making a video game unplayable by folks that are not able to get EMS over to them. I understand trying to keep realism in the RP but also remember that I'm adding the Good Samaritan in so that players don't feel scared to help their gaming friend or anyone else needing help while EMS is unavailable or the wait would be to long.

Let's be fun but not limiting in anyone's RP.
 

Mac Shanahan

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Absolutely not - being held liable for doing something you're not qualified to do and in turn causing worse problems than if you'd never intervened in the first place is perfectly sane because it forces people who don't know what the hell they're doing to wait for specialists to come do things properly. This comes down to what "Good Samaritan" covers. In the Faggio situation, being a Good Samaritan ends at moving the person out of the way of further traffic collisions - only off-duty medical staff have the minimum amount of training to be covered by Good Samaritan laws beyond that and in fact, anyone with any level of first aid (even if they don't have actual medical training) would yell at you for doing anything more than moving them.
Even folks that are qualified medics, certified in different things, etc in the military cannot do anything further than what would be considered “Good Samaritan” like applying pressure, or what have you. Unless you’re an actual PA, Dr., RN...
 

Giles Clarke

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By your logic, you are making a video game unplayable by folks that are not able to get EMS over to them. I understand trying to keep realism in the RP but also remember that I'm adding the Good Samaritan in so that players don't feel scared to help their gaming friend or anyone else needing help while EMS is unavailable or the wait would be to long.

Let's be fun but not limiting in anyone's RP.
I find that it's usually medical RP that people are willing to aggressively label "limiting [others'] RP" - especially when that person isn't a doctor and doesn't value medical RP - but these people tend to not have consistent opinions regarding other roles' time-wasting, such as performing traffic stops, hostage-taking, and other disruptive and non-critical interaction. I roll with car accidents and call mechanics and wait. I roll with being stopped by power-tripping police officers for having a light out and interact and wait. I roll with being taken hostage and panic and cry a lot... and wait. It's not really out of line to expect others to roll with medical emergencies where they may have to wait. It's straight-up disrespectful to medical staff to treat their RP like it's any less valuable than that of a bank robber or a cop. So wait.
 

Kimber Newman

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I find that it's usually medical RP that people are willing to aggressively label "limiting [others'] RP" - especially when that person isn't a doctor and doesn't value medical RP - but these people tend to not have consistent opinions regarding other roles' time-wasting, such as performing traffic stops, hostage-taking, and other disruptive and non-critical interaction. I roll with car accidents and call mechanics and wait. I roll with being stopped by power-tripping police officers for having a light out and interact and wait. I roll with being taken hostage and panic and cry a lot... and wait. It's not really out of line to expect others to roll with medical emergencies where they may have to wait. It's straight-up disrespectful to medical staff to treat their RP like it's any less valuable than that of a bank robber or a cop. So wait.


I am not saying to treat medical staff disrespectfully or to treat their RP like it is any less valuable than that of anyone else. However, this -is- a game and my opinion is that as long as there is an attempt made, why try to scare them into certain RP with words like "liable" and "warnings". Do what a prudent and respectful person of the community would do and if you feel you have, move on with your RP. We are playing to have fun.
 

Giles Clarke

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I am not saying to treat medical staff disrespectfully or to treat their RP like it is any less valuable than that of anyone else. However, this -is- a game and my opinion is that as long as there is an attempt made, why try to scare them into certain RP with words like "liable" and "warnings". Do what a prudent and respectful person of the community would do and if you feel you have, move on with your RP. We are playing to have fun.
See, I disagree. This isn't a "game" - this is a collaborative improvisionational acting session where every participant has obligations to every other participant as defined by the rules set out by those administering the session: this is the foundation of what roleplaying IS. Breaching those rules means disrespecting every other actor in the session as you're demonstrating that you're no longer interested in participating in a *collaborative* improv acting session. I think this is why we apparently approach 'fun' differently.
 

Cody Long

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the only problem i've had with EMS is the hostility for bringing my friends to the hospital. I do a lot of illegal stuff, and it's MOST of the time an awful idea to bring EMS/police, so we bring our people there. I've been told it can lead to getting banned and every time i do it i have at least 2 EMS screaming at me. It's awful RP, i get they might want RP, but in the times i DO call EMS anyway, they're usually too busy with other calls. It'd be fine if i was just told they prefer to be called, because I understand it can lessen the RP, but to literally scream at people and call us shit? it's happened too often and is blatantly annoying. as mentioned, most of the time it's not a good idea, and the times it is, it takes way more time than if we were to drive or walk there. I love EMS but these are my thoughts
 
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