Let's Talk Medical

[Cody Long]

the only problem i've had with EMS is the hostility for bringing my friends to the hospital. I do a lot of illegal stuff, and it's MOST of the time an awful idea to bring EMS/police, so we bring our people there. I've been told it can lead to getting banned and every time i do it i have at least 2 EMS screaming at me. It's awful RP, i get they might want RP, but in the times i DO call EMS anyway, they're usually too busy with other calls. It'd be fine if i was just told they prefer to be called, because I understand it can lessen the RP, but to literally scream at people and call us shit? it's happened too often and is blatantly annoying. as mentioned, most of the time it's not a good idea, and the times it is, it takes way more time than if we were to drive or walk there. I love EMS but these are my thoughts

also just want to add, sorry if that came off a little hostile, it had JUST happened IC and i was a little heated. as mentioned, i LOVE medical RP and everyone behind it <3

 

[Michael Kennedy]

the only problem i've had with EMS is the hostility for bringing my friends to the hospital. I do a lot of illegal stuff, and it's MOST of the time an awful idea to bring EMS/police, so we bring our people there. I've been told it can lead to getting banned and every time i do it i have at least 2 EMS screaming at me. It's awful RP, i get they might want RP, but in the times i DO call EMS anyway, they're usually too busy with other calls. It'd be fine if i was just told they prefer to be called, because I understand it can lessen the RP, but to literally scream at people and call us shit? it's happened too often and is blatantly annoying. as mentioned, most of the time it's not a good idea, and the times it is, it takes way more time than if we were to drive or walk there. I love EMS but these are my thoughts.

also just want to add, sorry if that came off a little hostile, it had JUST happened IC and i was a little heated. as mentioned, i LOVE medical RP and everyone behind it <3

Didn't take any hostility away from it. And as an IC Doctor I can see the frustration when there's no EMS. However, Maggie is hiring out the wazoo to make sure that there are enough people on to handle those calls.

But we also need to take into account that New Day is ~1 month old. As such, there are learning curves that are present and are currently being addressed. So yes, some things can fall under the cracks. At the same time, 911 calls can get hectic and sometimes it may take longer to get EMS. But generally, we have enough people on server to fill the need, especially in the evening when people are getting off of work.

Some things are going to be rough. And I get that there's some frustration when you've been sitting around for a very long time. I definitely get it.

It will get better. We just need to be like the Philadelphia 76ers and "Trust the Process"

 

[Cody Long]

Didn't take any hostility away from it. And as an IC Doctor I can see the frustration when there's no EMS. However, Maggie is hiring out the wazoo to make sure that there are enough people on to handle those calls.

But we also need to take into account that New Day is ~1 month old. As such, there are learning curves that are present and are currently being addressed. So yes, some things can fall under the cracks. At the same time, 911 calls can get hectic and sometimes it may take longer to get EMS. But generally, we have enough people on server to fill the need, especially in the evening when people are getting off of work.

Some things are going to be rough. And I get that there's some frustration when you've been sitting around for a very long time. I definitely get it.

It will get better. We just need to be like the Philadelphia 76ers and "Trust the Process"

agreed 100% trust the process!! i couldn't imagine being an EMS cause of how hectic it gets. joined a steam of an EMS once and i instantly got stressed from it all lmao. love u guys, just my thoughts, thing will be awesome

 

[Tyson Miller]

I dont think its right for anyone to be fighting around the hospital. Its wrong for people to do any of these things like this as its super toxic and just push any type of rp at all to be very frank.

 

[Mac Shanahan]

If there is some slow burn type RP going on where a character must try to escape the hospital, I understand and is something I think Moody eluded to in saying that "Long storylines that for some reason need to culminate in the hospital? OK, but that shouldn't be a common occurrence." sums it up nicely. Are there times IRL where stuff goes off the wall in hospitals? Sure. You can google it and you'll find a handful of shootings/arrests/fights, what-have-you in hospitals, but considering this is becoming much more common seems a bit concerning.

I agree with hostilities in the hospital if it makes sense. Consider what "makes sense" in both length of time the servers been alive, and your character/story's background.

Should MCs come shoot up the place because some prospect got admitted? Probably not.

Did some large scale mob boss (and consider we've only had less than 2 months of story arch here) get rushed to the ER and pending police questioning? Now this scenario I can see maybe having tensions escalate in the hospital to try to bail out the mob boss.



EDIT: The use of "MCs" and "Gangs" are examples and purely anecdotal - I am not saying one has more reasoning than the other.

 

[Travis Ray]

Absolutely not - being held liable for doing something you're not qualified to do and in turn causing worse problems than if you'd never intervened in the first place is perfectly sane because it forces people who don't know what the hell they're doing to wait for specialists to come do things properly. This comes down to what "Good Samaritan" covers. In the Faggio situation, being a Good Samaritan ends at moving the person out of the way of further traffic collisions - only off-duty medical staff have the minimum amount of training to be covered by Good Samaritan laws beyond that and in fact, anyone with any level of first aid (even if they don't have actual medical training) would yell at you for doing anything more than moving them.

Um... as some one with some prior first aid training, and covered good Sam laws, this isn’t true. Good Sam laws immunize you from legal liability in 2 ways. First, if you provide competent aid and an injury occurs in the process of giving that aid, you aren’t liable. This is called the “Life over Limb” rule. (Hint: CPR if done right, is very painful to the person surviving it... but it’s either painful recovery or death... so...). The injured also has to be unconscious for this to work too, since it presumes consent is to be injured over dead. If they are talking than they can tell you what to do (consider the scene from Jurassic Park where Ellie and the Game Warden are discussing if they should risk Ian Malcolm’s life by moving them. As they do a distant T-Rex roar receives Malcolm saying “please chance it” giving his consent to be moved and risk further injury over imminent death by hungry T-Rex.).

The second part allows off duty first responders to walk away from an incident without suit (I.e. a person dies in a car wreck that a doctor who is off duty passes without offering aid. The doctor is not liable.).

In all cases it’s a civil matter and not a criminal one in the form of liability so if you bring someone in medical distress to a hospital, it’s that person who will decide to sue you or not, not the cops arresting you.

 

[Giles Clarke]

Um... as some one with some prior first aid training, and covered good Sam laws, this isn’t true. Good Sam laws immunize you from legal liability in 2 ways. First, if you provide competent aid and an injury occurs in the process of giving that aid, you aren’t liable. This is called the “Life over Limb” rule. (Hint: CPR if done right, is very painful to the person surviving it... but it’s either painful recovery or death... so...). The injured also has to be unconscious for this to work too, since it presumes consent is to be injured over dead. If they are talking than they can tell you what to do (consider the scene from Jurassic Park where Ellie and the Game Warden are discussing if they should risk Ian Malcolm’s life by moving them. As they do a distant T-Rex roar receives Malcolm saying “please chance it” giving his consent to be moved and risk further injury over imminent death by hungry T-Rex.).

The second part allows off duty first responders to walk away from an incident without suit (I.e. a person dies in a car wreck that a doctor who is off duty passes without offering aid. The doctor is not liable.).

In all cases it’s a civil matter and not a criminal one in the form of liability so if you bring someone in medical distress to a hospital, it’s that person who will decide to sue you or not, not the cops arresting you.

I'm not sure you and I have the same understanding of what I said as 2/3rds of what you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote and the other third supports my point, despite the fact that you start with "this isn't true" and have a contradictory tone to what you've written, especially given that you seem to be responding only to me.

 

[Caine Jackson]

I have to agree with this, completely, I played Kit Detwiler in WWRP, Our sister site as many know I was huge in the medical RP but this? no I avoid it at all costs, not only am I a person who in reality, has been broken, bloody and screaming if anyone called EMS they would need them, which is a very common mindset particularly among Americans for reasons we very well know, the fact that my medically trained heavily experienced merc cant deal with a sprained ankle on her own to top the forced injury system that turns you into a fish out of water anytime you are injured? It's ruined med rp for me, doctors basically only wanting to be a mechanical tool with no outside-of-the-box RP allowed regardless of IC reasons..whats even the point, I cant decide how I've been hurt, I cant treat myself, we can't even go in using the locals and leave because nothing about this process is enjoyable anymore without it being seen as FailRP, Coming from WWRP and the hella enjoyable medical RP found there? It's been a nightmare, I have walked on a broken ankle for weeks, I have self-treated wounds that honestly could have used stitches, the human body is not this frail.

Remember when we have probies that are training we like to attend as many minor or major injury calls as we can to get the probie up to standard they need to get promoted to EMT and go solo

 

[Marie Ariez]

Remember when we have probies that are training we like to attend as many minor or major injury calls as we can to get the probie up to standard they need to get promoted to EMT and go solo

I am..unsure what this has to do with anything I said.

 

[Walker Webb]

I find that it's usually medical RP that people are willing to aggressively label "limiting [others'] RP" - especially when that person isn't a doctor and doesn't value medical RP - but these people tend to not have consistent opinions regarding other roles' time-wasting, such as performing traffic stops, hostage-taking, and other disruptive and non-critical interaction. I roll with car accidents and call mechanics and wait. I roll with being stopped by power-tripping police officers for having a light out and interact and wait. I roll with being taken hostage and panic and cry a lot... and wait. It's not really out of line to expect others to roll with medical emergencies where they may have to wait. It's straight-up disrespectful to medical staff to treat their RP like it's any less valuable than that of a bank robber or a cop. So wait.

This. People don't slow down enough. I get GTA RP is really fast paced, but sometimes slowing it down and turning down the urgency even in an urgent situation can make for fantastic roleplay.

 

[Roxanne Shepard]

This. People don't slow down enough. I get GTA RP is really fast paced, but sometimes slowing it down and turning down the urgency even in an urgent situation can make for fantastic roleplay.

I was thinking about this the other day, how even when I'm going to do absolutely nothing that requires urgency, I feel the need to get there as fast as possible. My destination could simply be hunting and I'm sitting there, restless as hell because I'm not there now. I've heard and seen plenty of others do this too. I wonder if it's a fear of missing out/FOMO. It's like when you have 3 people all asking for your character's attention at once and you just panic because you want to see what would happen if you gave all of them the attention right now even though you can't.

It's very hard to convince your brain that in many RP situations, you won't actually be missing a thing, it'll just be delayed. It's even harder to convince your brain to slow down and let your character breathe instead of jumping from plot point to plot point to sub plot point to conversation to whatever, but it can be very much so worth it. This includes medical RP.

 

[Salvatore Scarpaci]

To use an example: I was hanging around with a friend of mine who took a curb weird and fell off his bike. He had an injured leg that didn't seem to respond to bandaging. We opted to take him to the hospital given our inability to fix what should have been a minor injury and he passed out part way there.

This bit right here points to something I consider to be one of the single most annoying things in-game right now; The fact that you can catch a minor bleeding from falling over, and suddenly bleed out after a matter of minutes. It's ridiculous.

Minor wounds do not suddenly become significant wounds and kill you soon after. If you get a minor injury, it shouldn't force you to either drive 80 mph through the city to reach Pillbox in time, or sit down and call 911. I don't know what it is in the system that does that, but it needs fixing, 'cause right now it's beyond silly. I mean, shit, the kids of Los Santos must be dying by the thousands daily from falling off their bikes, and there can't possibly be a single handyman around anymore either.

 

[Liam Whitefeather]

I've read a few misconceptions about the good samaritan law.

Good samaritan law protects you when you are a bystander putting pressure on a gunshot wound until emergency services arrive. It does not protect you from driving them to the hospital yourself.

Good samaritan law protects you from breaking a rib or two applying CPR if you have a certification to do so while waiting for emergency services to arrive. It does not protect you from attempting without being certified and providing inadequate care during the attempt.

Good samaritan laws protect you when you pull a woman out of a car after an accident when it is obvious the car is on fire. It does not protect you from further moving that woman after, especially if it's possible that she has a spinal injury.

A lot more happens in an ambulance during extreme trauma than just sitting there watching your vitals, all of it is done to stabilize and control the situation until they are in the hands of doctors and nurses.

I made the argument to EMS regarding criminals, but my first day I got to witness the actual concern first hand, which is being treated like a mechanic, and rudely so.

 

[Nyles Hart]

Just a note regarding the Good Samaritan law discussion...

Those laws vary widely from State to State and are based on jurisdiction for the scope of what you can or can not do. The discussion of such is hard to sit down and argue without an established standard to base it off. Since we don't have them in San Andreas, we can't argue the details effectively. However, all States follow the design to allow exceptions for bystanders to give reasonable assistance in emergency situations. It's very case by case, but most courts weigh the situation on Good Faith. Was the individual doing something that a reasonable person would also do in that situation and attempting to do so in the best interest to help someone in urgent need?

If someone has no pulse but applies CPR, even if not certified, it's reasonable that their attempt is protected given if they had reasonable belief and understanding it could help sustain someone's life. For a situation of a burning car, they might pull them out, but it is likely a reasonable person would call 911 after doing so. Not instantly drive them to the hospital.

So again, when talking about Good Sam law it's important to understand it's based on State and sometimes it's really down to the details for a judge to decide. It's almost always a "reasonable person" standard unless there is precedent already established for exact situations or law outlining a stipulation.

 

[Burton Guster]

Is it documented anywhere in the rules/FAQs that if your game crashes while you're downed that you'll respawn in the same location still downed? This happened to me last night. I was being treated by EMS and my game crashed. I took about 10 minutes to rejoin because I wasn't sure how to continue the RP and asked in the Discord. If I had known it would have respawned me in the same spot I may have been able to rejoin much quicker and let the RP continue. Unfortunately, by the time I figured this out and rejoined EMS had already left the scene.

 

[Frankie Hunter-Tott]

Is it documented anywhere in the rules/FAQs that if your game crashes while you're downed that you'll respawn in the same location still downed? This happened to me last night. I was being treated by EMS and my game crashed. I took about 10 minutes to rejoin because I wasn't sure how to continue the RP and asked in the Discord. If I had known it would have respawned me in the same spot I may have been able to rejoin much quicker and let the RP continue. Unfortunately, by the time I figured this out and rejoined EMS had already left the scene.

Generally try and reach out to the EMS via discord that you just crashed at the scene (general chat is normally fine).

 

[StormRings]

Hi all,

A post I think is well overdue and a conversation we need to have about the systems we have on the server.

I'm going to start this very strongly and bluntly. Do not go to Pillbox looking for a fight. Do not bring your hostilities into Pillbox (or any hospital, but notably Pillbox)... They are HOSPITALS, filled with medical employees, there is NO ROLEPLAY VALUE to having hostilities in Pillbox. I strongly disagree with the concept of greenzones, and I'd much rather the community be respectful of the hospital rather than having to make it a rule. If you are bringing bad RP (anywhere, but this topic is about medical) to the hospital, you may end up losing your Whitelist. It is a privilege to play here, and the expectation is that you bring quality RP.

Another topic I want to cover is basic respect and decency: I don't care if your character is a gangster, biker, cop, etc. there is no need to be hostile/aggressive with the people that are doing their job trying to save YOUR life or your friends life. At some point, you're gonna need them. So why treat them like crap?

We have a lot of people who are here playing EMS, Doctors, Nurses, that put in a significant amount of time to learn how to do proper medical roleplay and provide medical services to the community. It is very discouraging to them to be harassed, mocked, or involved in shootings or other hostile situations that happen at the hospital. They are here to HELP and provide great roleplay! Be a positive part of that, don't ruin their RP for no reason.

Adding onto that, people need to start calling 911 when they are injuried - especially when they've been shot or suffered other major injuries. EMS has worked A LOT to get more EMS available around the clock, but are still confronted with people dragging their friends in to the hospital. Repeat offenders here will be talked to. If you call 911 and don't get a response within a few minutes, then go ahead and transport - but call 911 and they'll respond that your call has been recieved and they've sent a unit.

You have to remember that when you get injured, you need to ROLEPLAY your injuries. Put a bit of effort into this awesome medical system we've curated. This post doesn't apply to most people as many are respectful to the awesome medical staff we have. But for those who aren't, you really need to think about what you're doing and why. Of course there's times where you may dislike what medical staff are doing, or argue with them... But to do it for no reason is very unnecessary. They are here to give great RP, give great RP back.

Edit to clarify:
I am not saying that there can't be any hostile or aggressive/rude RP at the hospital by any means, what I'm saying is that there should be a good roleplay / IC reason to do so. Going in and being that way for no reason is silly.

Thank you.

Very well spoken

 

[Anthony Rough]

On the other hand, I really wish EMS would recognise that people are not only brought into hospitals by ambulances. The amounts of time I've gotten grief for taking someone to the hospital, as if it's incredibly wrong to do, is crazy. I understand if there was a possibility of these spinal injuries, but when it's not even a severe injury... I don't know what to do. I think it's crazy that people are also stating they'll refuse service due to them being brought by citizen not EMT (however this is a thing for IC). Also, if EMS gives me grief for it, I will give them grief. They are still people, an not immune to the not-so-kind words I'd use with any other randomer.

 

[Daisy McCoy]

On the other hand, I really wish EMS would recognise that people are not only brought into hospitals by ambulances. The amounts of time I've gotten grief for taking someone to the hospital, as if it's incredibly wrong to do, is crazy. I understand if there was a possibility of these spinal injuries, but when it's not even a severe injury... I don't know what to do. I think it's crazy that people are also stating they'll refuse service due to them being brought by citizen not EMT (however this is a thing for IC). Also, if EMS gives me grief for it, I will give them grief. They are still people, an not immune to the not-so-kind words I'd use with any other randomer.

While yes, most people do not call EMS for their injuries IRL (especially in the US, that's for sure) this is RP and as someone who has tried countless servers, med RP is usually the most neglected. It's just a fact that most people don't enjoy it or necessarily find it fun. If people *can* avoid med RP, they will. I think a lot of the frustration EMS side comes from this and we're trying to avoid people getting comfortable with, "oh it's just a scrape" RP and then never coming to the hospital using an ambulance. That robs us of RP too, and sitting around the hospital or driving around aimlessly is not fun or rewarding for us. I 100% understand the frustration from the OTHER side as well; if you're in the middle of a serious situation, or deep enriching RP, and you fall down stairs due to scuff, it can be frustrating to stop that RP and put it on hold for 20-30 minutes for medical RP. I get that. But not everyone is going through that all-deep RP; a lot of the time they're driving around grinding money & just don't want to give us the time of day. There does need to be a balanced respect on both sides... it's just navigating that and being able to read the room. All EMS and Docs want is the respect of not ignoring us. Standing around for a couple hours and watching people drag in their friends or walk in is pretty crappy.

 

[Travis Ray]

For me I think my big frustration is when NPCs down you do to wonky behavior (it’s my number one frustration feature.). I hate debilitating injury system that will force med RP if not immediately acted upon. Some status conditions should probably degrade slower than they do and not be as fatal as quickly. For example, a minor cut should be treatable with a bandaid and can be stopped for a good portion of time. Others make movement more difficult so you can move to safety from the situation, and imply injuries that are more serious than we might want to play (especially if the injury is NPC inflicted I tend to downplay the seriousness of the situation. I reserve long term consequences to injuries for PvP inflicted injuries. Both cause medical RP is hard for me and if I took NPC stuff seriously I should be dead or horrible mutilated by now.).

Maybe a list of all possible status and some examples of conditions that are implied and suggestions of how to RP them and describe symptoms that would be of both little and serious cause for concern. Additionally it would be helpful to know how the billing system works because I’ve been seeing a disparity in prices payed. This isn’t a problem with just the medical systems, but I’m not a fan of the automatic pull from my account hospital bills and ticket systems because it denies me agency over finances and situational third party payment options (what if I want to contest the medical charge or set up a medical insurance company? What if I think the cop was wrong and want to fight a speeding ticket in court or just am rping a low life that doesn’t pay his tickets?)